New Manual Transmissions Are Definitely Sucking: Part Deux

"PilotMan" (Pilotman) 11/04/2013 at 12:01 • Filed to: None

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(shiny aluminum flywheel)

I got my Mini back together on Saturday. The new light weight flywheel/transmission is awesome. The engine revs so much quicker with a much faster take off. The clutch pedal feels lighter and take up is quick. It shifts smoothly but a bit touchier, just like a manual transmission from 15 years ago, I love it. I was so stoked to have successfully dissembled the front half of my mini and then put it back together with a quiet and functioning transmission on the first try. BUT THEN…

A new problem has arising and I would greatly appreciate your help and suggestions. Even though the car starts and runs well she doesn't want to build boost pressure. The car feels like it’s making 2-4 PSI (stock is 17-22PSI). There is no OEM boost gauge. I’ve ordered an OBDII Bluetooth plug for my phone so I can download the infamous “Torque” app so I can read the computer data and clear codes.

When driving and giving it lots of throttle I don’t get the nice compressor sucking noise or a BOV whistle like usual when I let off. I can’t hear much rushing air at all over the valve train roar. The exhaust is factory so I can’t hear the turbine whistle. The turbine housing uses an integrated waste gate so it’s also hard to hear how much air is being forced through the turbine versus the waste gate.

I have run through the following trying to figure it out:

I pulled off the intake tube into the turbo, there was a light coating of oil from the stupid PCV but nothing seemed wrong with the impeller or shaft. It spun happily by hand and on start up with exhaust pressure. The turbo is quiet at idle with no rattling or bearing noises.

I checked the hot side tubing and the hot side of the intercooler itself for or any kind of blockage. Other than a bit of oil (stupid PCV) it was clear.

I took off the tube running between the intercooler tubing and intake manifold. I used compressed air to shoot air back through the cold side pipes and intercooler, nothing came out and the air flowed nicely.

I took off the intake manifold, checking the vacuum ports , I didn’t seen anything loose or open.

I checked the OEM electronic BOV module on the compressor housing, it was plugged in. I traced the wiring back to the wire harness and into the ECM. I checked the ECM cables and pins.

I pulled off the vacuum line running to the waste gate actuator and stuck it to my tongue, it was getting vacuum from the manifold at idle.

I put it all back together and asked one of my kids to rev the motor to 5,000 RMS while I squeezed the intercooler silicone hoses, I felt some pressure build in the hoses which shows that they are building pressure. Without an engine load I don’t know who much boost pressure it would build.

I left the battery unplugged Sunday.

I hooked up the battery and drove the car to work this morning. The car drove well with that slick new clutch but again it wasn't building/holding boost. 1-3,000 RPMS it feels slightly slow, above 3,000 RPMS the torque curve falls off without boost.

A bit of back story on the 2007 Cooper S R56 Turbos, MINI failed to offer heat shielding for the oil lines at the turbo which can cause the oil to coke up the oil lines and starve the oil of turbo. The Waste Gate Actuator can get some rust build up on the actuator shaft which can keep the waste hate from opening and shutting properly.

My guess is that the waste gate is open slightly due to the actuator not functioning properly. BMW/MINI don’t sell a replacement actuator. So I’m probably pulling the turbo myself and sourcing a local shop to rebuild the turbo.

Do you all concur?

Nick, Drives a Cobalt LT > PilotMan 11/04/2013 at 12:08

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Check for a boost leak.

I skimmed and didn't see if you did that yet or not.

I was having a boost leak where I could build 5psi when I should be at 25psi or so, and when I checked it with no load i could feel pressure on all the piping.

There may be a way someone else with a Mini has done it, my way was block off the two ends of piping (hotside closest to the turbo, and then the TB cold side) and it turned out I tore the silicone coupler.

Could be a list of things.

With no load you will only build up to atmosphere.

You might have hairline craked a hose while moving the engine bits around. If it drove fine before, then what did you move to change that?

Was any intercooler piping removed?

PilotMan > Nick, Drives a Cobalt LT 11/04/2013 at 12:22

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Thank you for the comment. The turbo producing 0 bar makes sense with an air leak. That makes me feel better.

Mini's have a service mode with the bumper, radiator support sliding off the front end of the sub-frame. The intercooler tubing stays intact and only disconnects at the turbo compressor outlet and the tube going down to the intake manifold.

My car is running with two ALTA silicone hoses that get rid of the intake muffler (stupid), and the plastic tube running from the intake manifold up to the cold side square tubing. I checked the silicone for any rubbing or holes and couldn't find any. I checked the hose clamps through the whole system.

Nick, Drives a Cobalt LT > PilotMan 11/04/2013 at 12:27

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I would keep looking. It could be such a hairline crack you cant see it.

If you think its an issue with the wastegate, take the wastegate solenoid off (if it has one) and clean it out.

Its really common for those to get gunked up, just take some brake clean or parts cleaner and rinse through it and de gunk it.

ESSSIX GmbH - Accountant/Wagon Thumper > PilotMan 11/04/2013 at 13:01

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You can build a leak tester with some basic home depot parts. Here's how its made for my car just to give you an idea: LINK

I also made my own smoke producer thingy. but its so ghetto rather not go into detail lol.

PilotMan > ESSSIX GmbH - Accountant/Wagon Thumper 11/04/2013 at 13:13

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I was thinking of building the same thing. This has gotta be a boost leak or a bad actuator, I’m really hoping for a leak so I’m not looking at a $500 turbo rebuild kit.

PilotMan > Nick, Drives a Cobalt LT 11/04/2013 at 13:21

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Good ideas, thank you. There is no solenoid, just a actuator and bov controller. I'm going to pull off the heat shield and check the function of the waste gate actuator, looking for too much side to side play while testing the vacuum diaphragm.

What's frustrating is that the turbo functioned great last week before I took it all apart. It's difficult to figure out if I did something or if this is just coincidence with something going wrong just from use and mileage.

Nick, Drives a Cobalt LT > PilotMan 11/04/2013 at 13:25

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It could simply be a coincidence, and things moving around caused it to happen.

But if your car can use a K04 Turbo I have one sitting next to me.

If not then I would look around online at Turbo rebuild kits and stuff.

ESSSIX GmbH - Accountant/Wagon Thumper > PilotMan 11/04/2013 at 13:29

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It has to be the actuator, the more I think about it, if it was a leak you would get a code for over boosting since the turbos would try to spin more to make up for the escaping air.

Also not that it is a real reason, but now that you have the lighter flywheel etc the engine doesn't have to work as hard to get you moving. And in new cars with all they're electronic controls etc, I know they could pull requested boost if its making the same power. For instance in one of the tunes I run boost is affected by temperature and its relation to air density, so on a hot day the car would boost to 20-21psi to give me the same power I would get at the usual 18psi on a cool day. Not sure if Mini does this but just brain storming.

PS9 > PilotMan 11/04/2013 at 13:36

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Wow...that's a really tiny intercooler...

PilotMan > PilotMan 11/04/2013 at 13:48

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Here is some good info from JM Turbo, these are the guys I bought my flywheel/clutch from:

http://www.jmturbocoopers.com/2885-BOOST-PRE…

"

Turbo Exhaust housing Failure, seen at 60k.

If the waste gate actuator is not operating properly it can cause a few different errors. Make sure that the waste gate valve is open about ~5/16” or ~8mm when measured on the shaft. Make a reference mark on the turbo and waste gate actuator shaft and pull the shaft towards the vacuum canister. It should only move ~5/16” or ~8mm, if it moves more you will have low boost pressure if it moves less than the ~5/16” or ~8mm the turbo will go into over boost and alarm.

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Also make sure the exhaust housing actuator is tight in the exhaust housing, it may stick due to wear damage. The shaft should move back and forth smoothly without binding, also if you pull up and down on the shaft the waste gate should feel tight in the exhaust housing. Too much play in the turbo exhaust housing indicates that there is excessive wear in the turbo exhaust housing causing it to bind and get stuck open or closed.

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They wear out quickly because the waste gate is on a duty-cycle meaning rapidly opening and closing when in boost. We typically see failure starting at about 60k miles or sooner if you have an OEM turbo and are running high boost pressures. Click here to see turbo exhaust housing.

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Blow Off Valve Failure

Remove the BOF and test it by applying 12dc and ground to the two leads. The piston should move in when 12dc power is applied. Also remove it and check the diaphragm is not ripped or torn and leaking. Click here to see BOV or Blow Off Valve.

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Vacuum Waste Gate Failure

Use a vacuum pump connected to the waste gate actuator vacuum canister to test for leaks, it should fully close the waste gate when vacuum is turn on and fully open it at atmosphere. If you don’t have a vacuum pump it can also be tested by blocking the vacuum port and closing the valve to see if pressure builds or closing the waste gate and blocking the vacuum port then releasing the waste gate to see if the vacuum canister sucks in air. If it fails in either direction it will need to be replaced. Click here to see Vacuum Waste Gate. "

PilotMan > PS9 11/04/2013 at 15:19

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An appropriate size for 200 horsepower. The stock I/C is square in depth/height which gives it some decent volume.

If you want small, look at the 1.8T VWs from the early 2000s, they were about the size of a ream of paper.

PilotMan > PilotMan 11/04/2013 at 22:21

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I figured it out!

I took off the front end again and pulled the heat shielding off the turbo. The gasket between the turbine housing and down pipe had blown out out and was contacting the waste gate actuator.

PilotMan > ESSSIX GmbH - Accountant/Wagon Thumper 11/04/2013 at 22:22

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Dude, you were right!

ESSSIX GmbH - Accountant/Wagon Thumper > PilotMan 11/04/2013 at 23:28

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about which part?!? Glad you got her sorted out! Nothing like having the chariot out of wack!

PilotMan > ESSSIX GmbH - Accountant/Wagon Thumper 11/05/2013 at 10:34

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Check out the pics: The actuator was hanging up on the down pipe gasket that had been blown out:

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/i-figured-it-o…

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

ESSSIX GmbH - Accountant/Wagon Thumper > PilotMan 11/05/2013 at 11:05

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Woah! why so many gaskets? Is it a Mini thing? Glad its a simple fix though!

PilotMan > ESSSIX GmbH - Accountant/Wagon Thumper 11/05/2013 at 12:02

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The gasket is three layers thick but the middle layer was blown out. I'm not sure why it blew. The turbo looks much newer than an 80,000 mile Mini Turbo, it may have been replaced under warranty but the dealer didn't torque the bolts properly.

ESSSIX GmbH - Accountant/Wagon Thumper > PilotMan 11/05/2013 at 12:38

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Ah, now to wait for the replacement, my favorite part...LOL

PilotMan > ESSSIX GmbH - Accountant/Wagon Thumper 11/05/2013 at 12:57

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The local MINI dealer has one in stock, the mini should be running tomorrow. I'll let you know how it goes.

ESSSIX GmbH - Accountant/Wagon Thumper > PilotMan 11/05/2013 at 16:14

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Sweet! Now come help me find this coolant leak! lol

PilotMan > ESSSIX GmbH - Accountant/Wagon Thumper 11/05/2013 at 16:42

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On a MINI?, It's the electric water pump.

ESSSIX GmbH - Accountant/Wagon Thumper > PilotMan 11/05/2013 at 19:31

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Haha no, a B5 S4. I have it narrowed down to one or all of the fallowing: Coolant flanges, coolant-temp-sensor gaskets, or the heater core tubes where they plug into the back of the block. All this is in the same area where the leak is coming from. I had a thermostat go bad on me last month causing the car to over heat, this most definitely stressed the systems so it could be all of these but Im hoping its not...however with german cars...you never know.

H20 weekend in a tiny montage:

PilotMan > ESSSIX GmbH - Accountant/Wagon Thumper 11/06/2013 at 09:41

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Oh no..

That's quite the leak. Any fluid in the oil?

PilotMan > PilotMan 11/06/2013 at 09:44

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Put in the new gasket, unplugged the battery overnight and she is as good as new. Driving into work was pure joy today!

ESSSIX GmbH - Accountant/Wagon Thumper > PilotMan 11/06/2013 at 09:50

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Well the pic above is from when the t-stat failed, the pressure popped one of the heater core hoses out and thats the puddle you see. Now I lose about a cup of coolant every time the car is parked, no mixing of fluids thank the lord. I just picked up a coolant leak tester so I'll know by the end of the day.

PilotMan > PilotMan 11/07/2013 at 09:30

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When chasing my boost leak I copied the S4 method with a really easy/cheap solution for checking the intercooler tubing and intake manifold for leaks. I set up a pressure test for the charge tubing with $10 of hardware from ACE.

Buy a 2" PVC cap (with smooth sides) and drill a 1/2" hole in the center of the cap. Using an IM-sized quick-disconnect female, a nipple, and a couple 1/2" rubber O-rings, screw the nipple into the PVC cap from the inside so that the female disconnect is facing out. Use plenty of Teflon tape to seal the connection.

Remove the cold-side charge tubing from the compressor outlet on the turbo. The tubing diameter is 1.8" so a 2" cap might be a bit tight. I have Alta silicone elbows and it worked great. Use your hose clamp to secure the cap in the end of the intercooler tube.

Lower the air pressure in your air compressor to about 20 PSI. If you don't have an air compressor go to a tire shop and buy a tire air valve and fit that to the PVC cap so you can use a bike pump or something.

Using two nipples screwed together (you can buy a female nipple that screws onto a male nipple).

Shut the garage door, turn off the radio, and get ready to listen for air leaks. Place you tow nipples between the quick discounnects and connect them together at the same time. Quickly add 10-15 PSI into the tube and then release both quick disconnects at the same time so that the air hose and the intercooler tubing have a chance to hold pressure.

If your charge pipes are good without any leaks you shouldn't be able hear anything other than a small hiss coming out of the PCV with air going into the intake tube. Note that you may need to turn the engine so that your intake valves are closed.

Listen and feel for air coming from the ends of your intercooler tubing, you vacuum hoses, the OEM plastic tubes, etc…

Hopefully if you find the leak and it’s an easy fix. The grub screws on the intercooler tubing hose clamps need to be tightened once or twice a year. Use an appropriately-sized socked rather than a flat head screw driver. Don’t over tighten the clamps on the intake hose between the air box and the turbo intake, they aren't pressurized and you can damage the tube if tighten the clamps too much.

PilotMan > PilotMan 11/07/2013 at 13:05

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